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Advice on practicality please.

stansfieldsimon

Hi all


I am considering retiring to Bulgaria with my wife. We have £35000 to spend on a property and around £1500 to spend on life per month. Is it possible to purchase a nice property and live comfortably for that in a region with an expat community or am I well off the mark?  Any advice appreciated. We’d also be bringing a dog.

See also

Living in Bulgaria: the expat guideHow to get my stuff from UK to BulgariaThe pollution caused by old diesel cars in Bulgaria has made me sickHouse InsuranceMonthly payments
janemulberry

Hi and welcome! We are an opinionated bunch so you're likely to get a range of thoughts on your questions!


1500 GBP is approximately three times the current Bulgarian minimum wage, so should be enough for a couple to live on, though that does depend on how you define "comfortable". It wouldn't fund an extravagant lifestyle but would be livable for sure.


Finding a ready-to-live-in house for 35,000 GBP might take some looking, as prices have risen quite a bit.  Sites like RightMove (prices in GBP) or Bulgarian Properties (prices in EUR) will give an idea of prices, and there are a lot of Facebook property sales and expat groups, some specialising in selling homes renovated by Brits who are selling up. That may be your best option to find something suitable. You will see village houses for sale at a far lower price than your budget, but they tend to need plenty of renovation work which can be more expensive that one expects and something of a challenge. It's also wise to allow at least 10% extra for legal stuff, etc. Be aware that in Bulgaria the buyer pays all the legal costs associated with the purchase, plus agents charge a fee which can range from 0 to 2000 EUR.


Other practicalities -- have you visited Bulgaria? If not, that is a must! It's the sort of country people seem to either love or hate. If you read though the posts you'll find posts from both sides of that divide! It's important to do research on the area -- a few places are not quite as safe and friendly to newcomers than others.


And there's also the issue of getting residency. Are one of you retired and getting either a work pension or your old age pension, or able to do so? Without a pension it's more of a challenge to get a long stay visa, the first step to residency, unless of course one of you has citizenship of an EU country.


Not trying to be discouraging! We bought an old wreck of a village house a few years ago and are slowly renovating to have it ready to move as soon as we qualify for our long stay visa. We love Bulgaria. Our village is friendly and welcoming, we're blessed with wonderful neighbours, and we can't wait to move!

stansfieldsimon

Thank you for the quick reply. I will reach 55 soon and retire with a teacher’s pension. I’ve lived in Eastern Europe before ((Poland for a number of years) and thoroughly enjoyed it. By comfortable I mean easily paying bills and groceries and having the means to dine out  and go to bars regularly.

sogy

@stansfieldsimon

Not any more (to buy a property, especially nice). But 1,500 a month is ok.

sogy

And no, this is not Poland smile.png

stansfieldsimon

Very aware it’s not Poland, this is the Bulgaria forum. 

janemulberry

A teacher's pension should certainly qualify you for the D visa (as long as it's more than the Bulgarian minimum wage -- sounds like it will be!), and then once you have residency you can bring your wife in under family reunification.


Eating out and a pleasant evening in a bar are far less expensive in Bulgaria, and your budget should certainly stretch to weekly nights out. Numbeo gives crowd-sourced average cost of living figures here: Some of those numbers look rather inflated to me, we certainly don't pay nearly that much for many items on the list, and many aren't relevant to us, either.


Buying property -- 35,000 GBP won't get you somewhere to live in a city and it's unlikely to buy anything bigger than a studio flat even in a smaller town. But I don't think it's impossible to find somewhere in a reasonable village for that, if you're prepared to go fairly rural -- say 20km from a small town/ 50km from a regional city. There are some absolute wrecks for sale in that price bracket, people knowing the market has risen fast wanting to maximise what they can get. But I think it's still possible to find renovated expat-owned homes where the owners want to sell fast rather than wait to get the biggest price. It will take some looking and maybe some patience.


Getting to know the various regions and the Facebook groups for  expat property sales will help.

JimJ

And whether you'd want to live anywhere near an "expat community" is a very moot point - we're a rum lot in Bulgaria....😎

SimCityAT

@stansfieldsimon

Jane has summed it up nicely.


The most important thing you can do is, do your homework first. Visit Bulgaria first, stay in different locations around the country, unless you know the region where you want to settle down. Even then, stay in different locations. 


You will find a heap of information on the forum. You will find some horror stories from members on here, but dont let that put you off the country. It's my opinion that Bulgaria just wasn't the right country for them.


You will find countries around the world, people aren't happy. Take Austria, I see so many people complain that it doesn't have 24-hour shops, and on bank holidays and Sundays, shops are closed. Personally, I love the quietness. All you have to do is forward plan your shopping.


There was a couple of months ago in the British press, a lady went on holiday to Greece, her biggest complaint was that they didn't serve any British food. Well, I am sorry if you want to go on holiday and only want British food, then stay in the UK. I, for one, when I go on holiday, I enjoy experiencing different foods, which makes the holiday more enjoyable.o


In other places, it's the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy. Well, yes, there is, and there are, but you'll find in the end they are comparing it down to their home country. It does take time to get used to, but doesn't everything when you start a new adventure? 

gwynj

@stansfieldsimon


As others have suggested, your budgets are in the realm of possible, rather than comfortable. The monthly income is good compared to the current Bulgarian minimum wage, so with no rent/mortgage you should find country life manageable. Especially as you (probably) expect further income in the future (state pensions and/or some remote work).


For initial purchase, you'll have to search carefully to find a bargain property that's in sufficiently good condition for you to move in. Your money will go further if you're willing to do more renovation work over the years, and you're happy to live a bit further away from a large city.


On the other hand, while it would be challenging in Bulgaria, it's not like you're spoiled for choice further afield. In the EU, I very much doubt you would find it easier elsewhere, and most likely life would be significantly more expensive. I still have my residence permits in Cyprus and Spain, but we find our visits MUCH more expensive than here. For even cheaper than Bulgaria, you could consider our neighbour Turkey, or perhaps more distant options in Asia (e.g. Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam) or Latin America (e.g. Ecuador. Mexico, Nicaragua ).


In terms of buying a property, I recommend you push your budget as far as you possibly can initially. Try to get the house with the best "bones" and location that you can possibly afford. And assume you'll do at least some improvement works. As you'll be there for many years, it doesn't pay to cut too many corners at the start. Even if they look more expensive, finding a property that is mostly (or even partly) renovated already will save you a lot of money and aggravation compared to doing it yourself.


@janemulberry recommended RightMove, and it has quite a selection of Bulgarian properties. Several agents offer "pay monthlies" here (BulgariaDirect and Mowlem) and they're worth considering as you can get a bit more house for your money (if you think your earnings/pensions will help you cover the monthly payments). There are also a number of regional agents who often have local bargains. For example, IBG is around Ruse, and Ideal Homes specializes in the Veliko Tarnovo region (very nice, and very popular with Brits) and I've seen them offer some tempting properties from expats giving up after doing a lot of work. I have friends who purchased a great property from them, and are very happy.


RighMove is searchable by max budget and region. The cheaper regions are the North-West (Vratsa/Montana), North-East (Dobrich), and South-East (Svilengrad and near the Greek/Turkish border).


Ebay used to have frequent property bargains, but not so much these days. But still it's worth a quick look, just in case.


I like BulgarianProperties as they're a large and reputable agent that does well with expats. I've purchased a couple of properties from them and they're very easy to deal with. They have a good website in English with lots of listings all over Bulgaria. I like that you can search by max budget and nationwide, so you can quickly see if there are any options that appeal within your budget. Here's my 40k euros search. My impression is that there are interesting properties with potential, but few that are in fully (or mostly) renovated condition.


Generally, for your budget, you might find a few apartments, but not many. Bansko (main ski/mountain resort) still has a few bargains left, and it's a charming town, and the Pirin National Park is spectacular. For a long retirement, you're probably better off with a lot more space in a village house and a nice garden to keep you occupied. You should note that transaction costs might be around 10% of the purchase price. You can buy a Bulgarian property before you're a legal resident, so you don't need to wait for your D visa. As non-EU citizens, a village house will have to be purchased via a Bulgarian company (rather than in your personal names). It's a common issue, and isn't particularly costly/onerous, so don't be put off by this.


Good luck!

SimCityAT

@gwynj

There are houses in Italy selling for €1, but they need a hell of a lot of money pumped into them to get them to livable standards and at a guess, you would be talking about at least €100,000 unless you do the work yourself and from what I've read, you have to do the work within a set amount of time, like 2 years.

Kath948381

The more I read subjects like this the more grateful I am to have bought in 2017  prices here seem to have gone through the roof and if we were to do this all again we wouldn't be able to buy so close to the Black sea and Burgas both of which are just a short ish bus ride away.

gwynj

@SimCityAT


I agree... there are a ton of cheap houses to renovate in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, and more. But renovation costs can be huge, even more crushing than Bulgaria! We had a "bargain" house in the former East Germany, and the utility bills and meister wages were eye-watering. For folks that want ruins to renovate, then Bulgaria has lots of them too.


There's a great YouTube series on 1 euro houses in Italy, and I agree that they can be very charming houses in lovely villages... and you can enjoy a retirement filled with morning espressos and evening pastas. Buongiorno! Come stai? But most interested buyers find the 1 euro houses are gone, and have to pay far more... then transaction costs are much higher (e.g. 10k/20k on a 1 euro house, I don't even know how)... and then renovation costs. One American got the 1 euro house... found it too tiny, and had to buy the neighboring house... then knocked them into one, and renovated them both. It's a beautiful property now, and I'd be delighted to live in it... but her spend ended up at $450k! :-)


A Bulgarian ruin wins in terms of the cost of materials and renovation... but a village house in Italy, Spain, Portugal, France will have bags of charm... especially compare with your fixer-upper in a deserted Bulgarian hamlet in walking distance of Turkey. :-) I'd guess that all that charm might add 50-100k to your costs.

stansfieldsimon

It would seem from all the advice that the budget I have will not afford the lifestyle I’d hoped for. It may be that a later retirement date will have to be considered. What expendable income per month would provide a comfortable situation? Bills paid, shopping done and regularly eating out and going to bars?

Kath948381

That really depends on the life style to aspire to though. It depends how you live now and your past, when I was about twelve my parents split up and Mum moved us from a lower middle class home with hot water and a bathroom  to a two up two down house in a very rough area of Manchester with no hot water and an outside toilet. But at least the arguments were over with. So now we live in a village house with no hot water in the basement kitchen but at least it has an upstairs bathroom with hot water and a shower.

So in short you should be able to afford a village house and a life but not luxury by any reckoning. But a good we quality of life  and not having to work for anyone else but yourself.

janemulberry

@stansfieldsimon

It's wise to be realistic about these things, though as others have said, it does depend on the lifestyle you aspire to. City life with eating out several nights a week at upmarket restaurants, unfortunately not.


A simpler village life, eating out somewhere nice in the nearest city once a week, having a drink in the local bar, that is most likely affordable. Your pension income should be adequate, finding a move-in-ready property for 35k is more of a challenge but not impossible.


The other options are looking for other countries with lower costs of living and cheaper properties (Numbeo can help there) or be waiting to retire and purchasing a pay-monthly property in the meantime, with the goal to have it move-in-ready when you do eventually retire. Most of these are likely to be in villages, however, not cities.

gwynj

@stansfieldsimon


The 1,500 quid is not bad at all. True, it's not a life of luxury and fancy dinners every night, but you should easily meet your basic needs without any stress. With a property paid for, you'd have no rent or mortgage, and water/electricity are pretty inexpensive. Property taxes tend to 100-200 rather than thousands for Council Tax.


The calculation is different if 1,500 is all you'll get for the rest of your life. But, for you, it's just a baseline, and the future is more plentiful.


You have (presumably) additional state pensions adding to the pot in 10 years or so.


Instead of waiting for that, I suggest you jump online and do a bit of tutoring. There's usually a fair bit of remote stuff suitable for retired teachers in the $15-$30/hr range, and higher if you have some specialist expertise. As a Brit you could probably also add some TEFL to the mix. Bulgaria is great for remote workers/digital nomads as it has fast internet in most locations, so you can hang out at home in your jammies, earning a decent foreign wage while paying low local expenses.


I worked at a private high school in downtown Plovdiv and they paid me a miserable 10 lv/hr, plus I had the aggravation of travel and hanging around town all day (they never gave me simple 2-4 hour blocks, always random spreads). Working at our village house was easier, cheaper, and way more efficient... aside from 6X the wage. Sadly, I'm horribly lazy and like being retired so I can ride my bike up the mountain and potter around the garden... so I prefer to work zero hours with zero aggravation. But I doubt there'd be any real impact on our lifestyle if I were doing  a fairly minimal 10-15 hours per week... and I could easily adjust it based on the bar/restaurant visits, touristic sightseeing, and electronic toys from eMAG that I indulged in that month. :-)


If it's not sufficiently tempting, I doubt you'd do much better elsewhere. As in, sadly, the solution is not researching all the world's countries for the diamond in the rough where houses are still $5k and you live like a king for $500 a month. (If you're not convinced, Google "how much do you need to live in x?" - where x is Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania, Georgia, Turkey, Mexico, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam - and let the AI overview give you the scoop.)


More likely, your alternative is to stay in the UK, and keep working so you can build up your pension income and your property savings. You can weigh up how much you fancy another 10-15 years of workplace stress and high UK costs. Many expats decide that a cheaper, simpler life with fewer treats/extravagances is worthwhile if the trade-off is a more relaxed, stress-free life.


Before I moved here, I had a pretty fancy university job at a very decent salary... and, in fairness, it probably had minimal aggravation compared with most teaching jobs. But any university job is a hassle of department meetings, pedantic line managers, and annoying students. Good university too, and beautiful campus, I used to walk to work every morning through the woods. In other words, I had it pretty good all things considered... but still hated it! Making a lot less money (or no money at all), but waving goodbye to all that stress/aggravation/expense/office politics was (and very much still is) a very acceptable trade-off for me. :-)

jeanmandredeix

@SimCityAT

The houses in Italy tend to be in villages with no gardens and lots of steps which I always think is an impractical idea if you are retired. Italian bureaucracy seems to be worse than most too. 😄

jeanmandredeix

@stansfieldsimon We are in the process of getting our visas and depending on what you are looking for in a house then it’s very do-able. The retirement visa if you have UK passport is long winded and fairly costly. I am sick

of waiting for paperwork to arrive so I can get to the next step. Some of the recommended translators on the Embassy website don’t exist anymore, etc.  If you haven’t been here before I suggest a flight and hire car to visit all regions as they vary considerably.