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Hi Ahmed,

I have been in a similar situation of going from Type A card to Type F.

In my recent meeting with city hall (Brussels), I have been advised that a conversion from A to F card causes an unintentional interruption in legal residence and the counter of 5 years starts again.

Curious to know more on whether it will be the same for you.

Regards,

Rahman

@rahmanahmad

Hi Rahman, if what they told you is true, that would be very disappointing to be honest.

Assume the following situation: someone gets married, gets an F-card and for whatever reason, the marriage doesn't work. Will they have to restart the count towards citizenship again?

@ahmedyoussef12377 I'm with you on that, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. To be honest, I'm prepping to fight this in court.

I would however still recommend that you take an appointment with city hall, hopefully it is not the same for you.

@rahmanahmad hi, would you care to give your context of the story? like how was exactly did you transition from A to F? that would actually determine if your particular situation caused an interruption. the same goes for the OP. i am actually curious because i also came here as a student on card A for 2 years, then worked on card A (single permit), then with an ongoing transition to F and i do plan to apply for Belgian citizenship.

@rahmanahmad did your A card exipired during the transition to F card?

@hssn601 No, it was valid for a a year more when I transitioned.

@brla15 There is the context that my F-card application was missing a document, which caused a rejection from IBZ but city hall was not aware of this rejection even 10 months later so they issued me a F-card, later they asked me to bring my F-card back, cancelled it and started a new application for an F-card, this whole time my a-card was still valid.

However, consulting with city hall, they have emphasized on the fact that it had nothing to do with the interruption as interruption is a standard part of the process when you change from a short term (A-card) (tijdelijk) card to an F-card (long term).

This would not have happened, if I updated my card from A to B, which is a long term card and then applied for an F.

Long story short, A to F always comes with interruption.

The problem could be when they cancelled the F card and applied for a new F card. As soon as you got your first F card your a card got cancelled and later on when your F card also got cancelled might have caused interruption. Did you got any document when they were processing your 2nd F card?

@hssn601 Yes an annex 19ter. Later an Orange Card. The city hall emphasized on the fact that issuance of an Orange Card is what causes this unintentional interruption.

    @hssn601 Yes an annex 19ter. Later an Orange Card. The city hall emphasized on the fact that issuance of an Orange Card is what causes this unintentional interruption.        -@rahmanahmad

Did you got orange card when you got your first F card or it was direct A -> F, it could be that in normal circumstances when no rejection one could directly transition from A -> F without interuption.

@hssn601 no, there wasn't any orange card in the first A->F. In the second application there was, you might be right.

@brla15

The transition in my case was pretty smooth I would say.

While having a single work permit (type A) as a PhD student, I applied for family reunification (to not be limited by one employer). They gave me the temporary orange card then I had to wait a few months for the F-card. And I have it since 15 months now.

@rahmanahmad hello, attest van immatriculatie is not an interruption of legal stay -->

@ahmedyoussef12377 actually weird for them to issue you an orange card when you can just exchange it with the F card if ready. but ok, to each his own.

@brla15

Good point except I wouldn't have been able to work for a different employer without it. You see, they offered exactly what you mentioned, that I wait for the F-card, but then I informed them about switching employers and they suggested to hand over my A card in exchange for the orange card.

@ahmedyoussef12377 aha, the action is actually logical after all.

@brla15

Do you think there was an interruption somehow in this case? And would applying for citizenship make sense?

@ahmedyoussef12377 so to go back to your question, looks to me like you are qualified to apply either via marriage or via integration categories. your PhD years will be valid since you were in possession of card A during those years and you will be holding card F at the moment of your application without interruption of legal residence in between those 5 years. however, this also depends if you meet the other requirements, but i do assume you did.

@brla15I checked and according to this:https://justitie.belgium.be/nl/themas_en_dossiers/personen_en_gezinnen/nationaliteitI need to: - proof of language knowledge - have lived in Belgium for for 5 years- lived together with my spouse for at least 3 years or a parent of a Belgian child- social integration: I either need a diploma, vocational training (and work experience) Or to have gone through an integration program.I think I satisfy all of these if they take my PhD years into account. However, one this I'm not sure of is the social integration. I'm not really sure I've done anything related to it except that I have worked for almost 5 years now, 3.5 years of which are as a PhD.

@ahmedyoussef12377 if you can produce a loonbrief for 5 years, well and good. but in that case the best bet is to do the integration course :-) i think you still have time

@brla15

I agree. Thanks for all the answers.

Any idea where to find information about the integration course?

Side note: I might have actually done it during my first year in Belgium. It was probably organised by KU Leuven or something. But I'm not 100% sure.

@ahmedyoussef12377 hi you can check the website of Agenschap Integratie & Inburgering. every municipality has their own office, so contact the office (by email or call) of your municipality. if you indeed entered into a contract with them before, they should be able to see it in their system.

yes indeed, I think actually if the orange card lead directly to a f card then its fine@rahmanahmad

@hssn601 no, there wasn't any orange card in the first A->F. In the second application there was, you might be right. - @rahmanahmad

Were you able to get the nationality? I am in the situation should my wife apply for F card, she now holds an A card and has been in Belgium for 4 years and planning to apply for nationality next year. If she don't apply for F card she can renew the A card in coming months but won't be able to apply for nationality with A card.

@rahmanahmad

Hi, did you fight it in court in the end? I'm considering whether it makes sense to go from my A card, valid for 2 more years, to F card; or if that would cause a pause in my time count for the nationality.

Thanks!

@mpssalazar

When you transition from A to F means the time you had the A card doesn't count anymore..it's like starting from 0.

@wipopoo88

Thank you for the reply! That feels so weird, since it's just another type of residence, but Belgium bureaucracy doesn't always make sense 🤷

@wipopoo88

That's not true at all. It counts.

@Mia0210

I've seen some anecdotal cases in which the orange card is considered as an interruption, but have also seen people saying it didn't interrupt anything for them

@wipopoo88

Incorrect. They do count  unless you had an orange card in between and your F card was denied.

I switched directly from an A card to an F card without having an orange card, and nothing happened.

@Mia0210

No it doesn't unless the regulations changed...two of my friends had that encounter and even asked in their city hall, like 5 years ago and it was starting from 0 when they got the F card..