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Yes totally agree I've been here 3 months and i wished id come ten years ago.

Wow you really do struggle with the English language. I said dont pay money to employers as you suggested, therefore it relates to the question at hand because you said to pay money in reply to the OP.

And the question still remains unanswered , on and on and on it goes
I really want to know you Cossmo , so can I start by asking you what your personal experience has been with Vietnam ?
You said ask , so I've asked . No dodging now !

Happy8888 wrote:

And the question still remains unanswered , on and on and on it goes
I really want to know you Cossmo , so can I start by asking you what your personal experience has been with Vietnam ?
You said ask , so I've asked . No dodging now !

yup, and I'm not applying for credit. so my life's history is irrelevant on a public forum.

it's strange how you are so adamant on my history. you don't know who I am nor my history, but at the same time make claims on my credibility. another Happy logic. you don't know but you claim to know. makes a lot of sense here.

let me say it again, I do not need to prove anything to you. neither do I need your approval to justify my opinions. flexing your certificate of 5 years living in Vietnam means jack. there are thousands of expats in Vietnam who have lived a shorter period and have a better understanding of the culture than you. get over yourself already.

andyoshea wrote:

Yes totally agree I've been here 3 months and i wished id come ten years ago.

Hi Andy
I started this thread but have clammed up a little for obvious reasons.
I think that if you feel that you are comfortable in this country, then you will stay. I love the people. My wife is from Saigon. I earn a modest living teaching and that suits us fine.
Hang on in...meet the locals and make friends. Generally they are a good hard working people.
If you need any advice , encouragement or whatever or come down to HCMC...just PM me.

Best of luck, ....

Hello everyone

Please note that some off-topic posts have been removed from this thread. There are still some off-topic on this thread but since the initiator is still active, could we please share only on the subject.

Thank you in advance
Bhavna

The posts here now are way off topic so how about everyone take deep breathe and get back on topic please.

OK, I was willing to tell my experience, but the thread was in flames. It is still very far from being clean, but lets hope the war is over now...

I sent some resumes and the answer I got is the same the opener got, silence. Not even a "we got your resume". Just some automatic answers. I got just one real answer, and I think now that it would be better not to get it. After wasting hours and hours filling forms and passing tests, I got the creepiest interview in my life.

Please, note that I'm not English teacher (for sure you can tell it by reading this post). It seems that expats in Vietnam are condemned to become English teachers. Even if you are not English speaker!

I think that most companies are reluctant to get expats due to laws and language problems. But then, why they post job offers in expat pages? Maybe inside the same company there are people who want to employ foreigners, and people who doesn't want to. A friend told me that in his company they were needing people, but when he tried to introduce me, it seems that the RH manager refused due to the paperwork needed to employ a foreigner. Maybe RH managers are forced to use expat's pages by their (foreign) companies, but they are reluctant to answer non-vietnamese resumes. Or maybe I'm wrong, but then I can not understand such a low answers rate...

Hi Jon,

Just want to inform you about the difference in employment ethic. In most asia region, they use "who in needs" theory. So it is rare that an employer will reply you except you get an interview. This practice has been done for long time in asia region, not just vietnam. So following this theory, you can say, the employers are not interested on you if no reply coming within 2 weeks after apply.
I have a tip for u though, a westerner once quote (i cant recite 100% the same, it is more or less) : no need for waiting anymore, you just need to keep contacting them.
I am sure you will get either good or bad response.
Thats all I can write.

Good luck Jon.

Gday all,

I was just wondering if when you apply for a teaching job if it's worth you offering a couple of Volunteer complimentary lessons.

That  may be a way of getting you in the door and offering to show them your ability with no obligation on them to employ you.   Let them know that if they're in any way doubtful about placing you , they can "try before they buy".     It may give you the edge on other applicants.

Getting something for free here seems to open doors.   There's probably a good chance you'll get a reply with that angle.

I don't need to work here but have done volunteer work and there's never been a problem getting a start doing something if it's complimentary.   And, if they don't offer you a paid position, you've got the work experience to add to your next resume.

It's just an idea, maybe worth a try.

Take care.

Monihon wrote:

OK, I was willing to tell my experience, but the thread was in flames. It is still very far from being clean, but lets hope the war is over now...

I sent some resumes and the answer I got is the same the opener got, silence. Not even a "we got your resume". Just some automatic answers. I got just one real answer, and I think now that it would be better not to get it. After wasting hours and hours filling forms and passing tests, I got the creepiest interview in my life.

Please, note that I'm not English teacher (for sure you can tell it by reading this post). It seems that expats in Vietnam are condemned to become English teachers. Even if you are not English speaker!

I think that most companies are reluctant to get expats due to laws and language problems. But then, why they post job offers in expat pages? Maybe inside the same company there are people who want to employ foreigners, and people who doesn't want to. A friend told me that in his company they were needing people, but when he tried to introduce me, it seems that the RH manager refused due to the paperwork needed to employ a foreigner. Maybe RH managers are forced to use expat's pages by their (foreign) companies, but they are reluctant to answer non-vietnamese resumes. Or maybe I'm wrong, but then I can not understand such a low answers rate...

Actually the reason why this thread turned to mud was that one of the posters was asked for his experience on the subject,which he stated was a personal thing,not sure how that works.

What you have written is right,it is difficult to get a reply and its not just for employment. I do feel that there has been some improvement,but the mindset here is "there is no need to reply".

TimmyW wrote:

Hi Jon,

Just want to inform you about the difference in employment ethic. In most asia region, they use "who in needs" theory. So it is rare that an employer will reply you except you get an interview. This practice has been done for long time in asia region, not just vietnam. So following this theory, you can say, the employers are not interested on you if no reply coming within 2 weeks after apply.
I have a tip for u though, a westerner once quote (i cant recite 100% the same, it is more or less) : no need for waiting anymore, you just need to keep contacting them.
I am sure you will get either good or bad response.
Thats all I can write.

Good luck Jon.

this is exactly it, a cultural difference and other process reasons as snake pointed out in an earlier post. nothing really to do with 'common courtesy'. as Yogi pointed out, you only need to observe a queue in a bank to understand courtesy. HR is also relatively new in Vietnam, can't really expect it to function like recruiters from the west. there could be a dozen reasons for a non-response. in the end, you're simply not what they're looking for and they don't need to waste their cafe time on you.

many thanks for kind words, things are falling into place here for me now

Unfortunately these lot are uneducated. Vo hoc they say!

I think we can safely conclude that Cosmo is in fact Vietnamese

I agree to you Jon .  I was so sad without reply .
MyLan

that is a rather well thought out deduction Pedro. someone with a brain.

It just never stops

There's no substitute for the old-fashioned way of finding a job - hitting the bricks and pounding on doors.  If you really want the job, find out who/where they are and drop by to drop off a CV.  If they blow you off, go back again and then again, until they hire you.  I've successfully pulled that one off, but it was a bit demeaning and demoralizing, until that day that they finally relented and gave me a shot.

Energy and persistence conquer all things. - Benjamin Franklin (inventor of the $100 bill)

And this is not how it has become in the U.K. (Of which I Have direct experience), And presumably the rest of the "west"?

We'll hotrod99, by the look of your post and it's relevance to the subject , it is obvious you have found where to buy it

The same happens when you apply for work with some VN companies, they want you to supply your details plus CV, then have an interview before they tell you what they are paying. Seems to be a long way round to find out what could be answered at the initial  contact.

Sometimes trying to find out 1/ where the work is 2/ hours of work 3/pay scale , is like trying to get blood out of a stone . I frequently have to ask the same question 5 or 6 times
Either they simply cannot comprehend the question , forget the question in a nanosecond , or simply don't want to answer what I consider , very relevant questions
Today I received a reply about a job posted on this forum 1 month ago . Why someone would post an advertisement looking for staff and then take 4 weeks to answer you , is way beyond my comprehension .
If you are lucky and you do get your question answered 8/10 times it's all BS anyway
I could go on and about the complete morons that I have wasted so much time with

I spoke with a lady who had a very good command of English and she told me it was against company policy to disclose the rate per hour, I just gave up and looked elsewhere.

@colinoscapee , I fully agree with her , that's not important in making a decision , what's wrong with you !!!

I think that there are several factors that combine to result in non response to applications.  First may be the sheer volume that the larger better paying schools must receive.  In our age of email and .pdf files, it is a lot easier to fire off 200 applications as I read some people have actually done.  I know myself, from hiring experience, outside of teaching, that the internet is a two edged sword.  You can make your job postings be seen far and wide, but you can also get a lot of applications from people from far and wide who just seem to be casually inquiring because the bar to sending an application is so low.  For email applications, an automated reply would really not be too meaningful in my eyes.

The other thing is that schools may be getting applications year round but the actual times that they need to hire people are limited.  These are usually at the beginning of the public school year if they have new contracts and if they open up a new center.  The other time, far less predictable, is when someone quits.  Parenthetically, how many ESL teachers in Vietnam have given their schools adequate notice of leaving which is usually four weeks for professional/management jobs?   I think the tendency for schools is to look at the next however many applications that come in when they enter one of these periods.    The situation is so fluid that it would be unimaginable for a school to keep a searchable database of prior applicants.  Even if they did, the applicants would probably either be already working or out of the country.  In the later case, how many of those people would honor the school with a return letter if offered a job in Vietnam while working in say Saudi Arabia?

Consider this job offer in Honolulu: 
In particular notice the line near the bottom that reads "Due to the high volume of applications, only candidates who are selected for an interview will be contacted."  I have seen a similar statements on the websites of Vietnamese schools as well.  Also notice that there is no mention of salary even though the qualifications are moderately high.  My guess that it is $20-30 tops and possibly less.  I presently have a very part time (average 15 hrs/month) ESL job in Honolulu at $42 but that is rare. 

I just realized that I wrote all this while lmcpeos said about the same in 23 words.     Also Teacher Mark is correct that it is better to actually drop off hard copy applications.  Sorry for being so long winded but I do think there are two sides to this discussion.  There is plenty to complain about with ESL work in Vietnam.  Not getting replies to applications is frustrating but relatively minor.

THIGV....I agree with your sentiments and explanations.

I am pleased that the thread has survived a little while now, and, in retrospect,  admit that my original complaint was a little naive.

If the thread has been helpful to people, myself included, and encouraged them to percevere...then all is well.

To add a footnote, I have recently found some interesting freelance work ( not teaching ). Thanks to this site !

I try to encourage others on the forum too; especially those who are far younger than myself.

Vietnam is a lovely place to be. There are many things that can be improved, but that applies to any country.

Saigon is vibrant and on the move. I have no regrets in leaving Europe behind me.

Best to all you expats and locals out there.

The land of smiles ! Be grateful for what we have !   .....getting off subject...so, ....

namaste !

THIGV wrote:

I think that there are several factors that combine to result in non response to applications.  First may be the sheer volume that the larger better paying schools must receive.  In our age of email and .pdf files, it is a lot easier to fire off 200 applications as I read some people have actually done.  I know myself, from hiring experience, outside of teaching, that the internet is a two edged sword.  You can make your job postings be seen far and wide, but you can also get a lot of applications from people from far and wide who just seem to be casually inquiring because the bar to sending an application is so low.  For email applications, an automated reply would really not be too meaningful in my eyes.

The other thing is that schools may be getting applications year round but the actual times that they need to hire people are limited.  These are usually at the beginning of the public school year if they have new contracts and if they open up a new center.  The other time, far less predictable, is when someone quits.  Parenthetically, how many ESL teachers in Vietnam have given their schools adequate notice of leaving which is usually four weeks for professional/management jobs?   I think the tendency for schools is to look at the next however many applications that come in when they enter one of these periods.    The situation is so fluid that it would be unimaginable for a school to keep a searchable database of prior applicants.  Even if they did, the applicants would probably either be already working or out of the country.  In the later case, how many of those people would honor the school with a return letter if offered a job in Vietnam while working in say Saudi Arabia?

Consider this job offer in Honolulu: 
In particular notice the line near the bottom that reads "Due to the high volume of applications, only candidates who are selected for an interview will be contacted."  I have seen a similar statements on the websites of Vietnamese schools as well.  Also notice that there is no mention of salary even though the qualifications are moderately high.  My guess that it is $20-30 tops and possibly less.  I presently have a very part time (average 15 hrs/month) ESL job in Honolulu at $42 but that is rare. 

I just realized that I wrote all this while lmcpeos said about the same in 23 words.     Also Teacher Mark is correct that it is better to actually drop off hard copy applications.  Sorry for being so long winded but I do think there are two sides to this discussion.  There is plenty to complain about with ESL work in Vietnam.  Not getting replies to applications is frustrating but relatively minor.

Thats fine, but I was actually talking direct to the employer via Skype, not playing email tennis. If a company cannot and will not disclose the salary, there is usually something to hide. I cant be damned putting together an email with my references and CV, then wait to have an interview to find out something that could of been disclosed online.

Next time your here, ring a Honda dealer and ask them for a price on a motorbike, many wont give it out over the phone, they tell you that you must come into the shop. Why do they do this, they believe you are from an opposition business checking out their prices, bad way to run a business if you ask me.

Happy8888 wrote:

Why someone would post an advertisement looking for staff and then take 4 weeks to answer you , is way beyond my comprehension .

You weren't their first choice, more than likely.  They may have churned  and burned a few before calling on you.

I received this yesterday, at 11:30 am: 


I am pleased to inform you that you have been accepted as English teacher in our center.
Please come to XXXXX at 2 p.m.to be introduced to the program and the class will start at 4.30 p.m this afternoon.

I am looking forward to seeing you this afternoon.

I sent my CV to them over the weekend, so they had 2.5 days to call, but chose instead to contact me via email, 2.5 hours before training began.   Classic signs of an organization that's less than organized, IMHO.  I had a class scheduled already, so I didn't go and they haven't attempted to contact me since.

@teachermark , I beg to differ , especially when all I did was enquire as to the location and hours of work . They knew nothing about me , but it still took over a month just to answer a basic question . Therefore it is indicative of their propensity ( pretty much across the board) to waste people's time . It's endemic
If someone advertises a job , they should be prepared to deal with any response in a timely manner, irrespective of the volume of enquiry.
The way I see it , is that they , by posting an advertisement , are extending an invitation . Therefore a response is nothing short of being courteous .
It takes 2 minutes to send a message . It has been said on this post , that a note saying only short listed candidates , will be contacted . At least applicants then know where they stand,and have no expectations.        And yes , the amount of times I have been contacted , asking me to work with 1 or 2 hours notice is ridiculous . They obviously think we just sit around , with no lives , no plans , just praying that we will hear from someone , anyone .
I used to work for a company , and it was not uncommon for them to email me at 11.30 at night telling me my. 7am class was cancelled , also adding that the school had just told them . Yeah right .but then again , they are not going to admit that they are just totally disorganised nd in fact knew that many hours before

Teacher Mark wrote:

I received this yesterday, at 11:30 am: 


I am pleased to inform you that you have been accepted as English teacher in our center.
Please come to XXXXX at 2 p.m.to be introduced to the program and the class will start at 4.30 p.m this afternoon.

I am looking forward to seeing you this afternoon.

I sent my CV to them over the weekend, so they had 2.5 days to call, but chose instead to contact me via email, 2.5 hours before training began.   Classic signs of an organization that's less than organized, IMHO.  I had a class scheduled already, so I didn't go and they haven't attempted to contact me since.

Hahaha, sounds about right Mark. Its something thats definitely takes time to adjust to.

All part of 'the game'

All that is 'normal' in Vn. Don't get wound up. Best thing is to ignore the timewasters; there ARE good people out there. The 'agents' are a complete waste of time

I have replied you before. I thought i have not get any reply from then on

Jenny Ng

Hi Jenny,
What you say is true.
However, I was contacted immediately by another "recruiter" from the agency that you represent, and was so disgusted by the idea of writing degree standard English text for a company who designate school grade 5 non native speaking staff to arbitrarily assess the work and cut the pay by 50%  off a meagre  $ 10 an hour if they, ( with their primary school English ), consider the work not up to their own ( primary school ) English standards.
I take your point, and here is my apology, but your company really seem to be as unprofessional as can be and not worth my time.