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tennisanyone? wrote:

By the way has anyone on 600 dollars a month and no other commodities ever had a meaningful relationship with a Vietnamese girl?

Yes - Most of the Vietnamese men in Vietnam.

John,

Vendors, everywhere, have always wanted more for their products or services.  In the more-developed economies, there are regulations to protect the consumers against such greed.  But here, such protection is almost non-existed, so the consumers must fend for themselves.  I don't believe the Vietnamese enjoy bargaining any more than we do.  They do it out of survival.  I know for a fact that the more savvy Vietnamese consumers seldom buy from people they don't know.

Prices in tourist area have always been high, everywhere.  That is why more seasoned consumers avoid buying in those area.  However, if I don't speak Vietnamese or know my way around, I would be more than happy to spend my days in District 1.  As a matter of fact, I did spend my first couple of visits there.  However, I no longer go there, unless it is to meet up with my friends.  Other than that, I would much rather spend my time in other parts of Vietnam, where the real Vietnamese live and work.  To me, that is the only way to learn about the Vietnamese way of life.

Best,
Howie

Hi Howie, thanks for your post. I agree with all you say except that I have traveled all over Vietnam and have found most shops and vendors to be just as dishonest. However, just take a walk to 3 or 4 other stores and you will find a reasonable honest person. As far as HCMC goes, I don't even try to bargain much here anymore, as the last thing I need is to be sworn at. It tends to make one in a bad mood. I work in Binh Thanh and am still getting charged double for coffee etc., even after trying to bargain, and I don't see any expats round there. Obviously a city that has many expats/ tourists in it(which was my original point)is going to be worse, but after travelling my whole life. I do expect to be charged more, usually 10 to 20 per cent more . But, in the last few years, with the advent of so many westerners travelling now, its risen to 2 times more and upwards.
John

John,

The advise that I received and have been passing on is to buy from one vendor, cigarettes, for example.  I didn't know any of the vendors in my area, when I first moved in.  But soon, I picked out one that I was most comfortable with, and continued buying from him.  I was fortunate enough to have picked out an honest guy.  He has not charged me any more than the fair market price of his cigarettes.  Moreover, after a few packs, he gave me his number and offered to deliver.  The same goes for all my other needs.  Vietnamese treat you very differently, once you get to know them a little.  Last but not least, getting to know these people and this place is something that we are all here for, right?  Let those interpersonal skills and those travel experiences work for you.  Just concentrate your efforts a little.  Loyalty counts here.

As for the overall prices of products and services, inflation is responsible for more than any tourist or expat.  Gas is currently 3 times of what it used to be 2 years ago; and there is no sign that it will go down any time soon. 

I do agree with you that unwary tourists, to a certain extend, drive up local prices.  However, I must add that they are only limited to a number of products and restricted to certain areas.

Hi and thanks again for the input Howie. Did I mention that I have been in Vietnam for about 7 months? When I got here it was by hitch-hiking over the border from Laos. Vietnam sent a shiver up my spine, it was so beautiful especially in the mountains. Only two other places have given me that feeling before namely India and sub-Saharan Africa. I loved the fact that everyone was so friendly and that if I wanted to eat , sleep or do anything really I would have to learn Vietnamese fast. This I started doing straight away.
The next day I traveled by local bus to Vinh and over the next 3 months I made my way slowly, first by 3rd class train, then by motorbike all the way down the country to Saigon. Stopping every 200 or so klms and just wondering around by foot, looking and chatting to Vietnamese locals. They taught me a lot about certain things that go on in Vietnam. Saigon is not Vietnam. Like New York is not the USA. I kinda fell in love with Vietnam because the most amazingly beautiful countryside and also because of the friendly nature of the people. Then I hit HCMC. Although i managed through hard work and endurance to find honest people here, it really is a hot bed of hard core capitalism and dishonesty. I'm sure there are many reasons for this and I have a few ideas based on history and observation. Actually the more I write , the more I am realizing that a more comprehensive work is required to get my point across. Anyhow , I have observed over the last 8 years a massive change in the relationship between locals everywhere and foreigners. Inflation is definately a real issue for the Vietnamese and other natives of the countries I have visited- Tanzania barra, Zanzibar, Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, India, Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam living and working in some over the last 3 1/2 years. Most of these countries have been return visits , so I can compare my feelings before with my feelings now. I have also been around the Mekong Delta and southern western mountains Da Lat etc. So, as you see I do have some experience. Yes you could sleep and eat for a dollar a few years ago. I realize inflation - Chinese investment money, IMF and WB developmental money etc. have played the main part.(read "Lords of Poverty" Hancock, Atlantic Monthly Press" but still the massive increase in tourist economy is utterly stupefying. Do you account for hotel or rental prices going up in the last year and a half to inflation? everywhere I travel except for HCMC I can rent an apartment for 150 dollars a month, which as I understand it is the real price of an apartment here (one bedroom unfurnished) however its not so easy to get and in fact no expat I have spoken to, barring one, has the faintest idea, quoting from 300 to 1000 dollars upwards. So, a few thousand on a packet of cigarettes no too bad, double , treble or more on a hotel room or an apartment really makes a difference.
John

tennisanyone? wrote:

Saigon is not Vietnam.

SAY WHAT????

New York is not America?